Glory be! Star Wars Transformers! Where have these been all my life? Give a raise to some brain-box toy-making person (or high-level executive) somewhere. These are far, far and away the best toys of the season. I haven’t been as excited about the merging of two universes since Alien vs Predator! Or Batman vs Judge Dredd. Or Robocop vs Terminator. Or Batman vs Superman. Look, any ‘VS’ combo actually; I’m an absolute sucker for them. It’s just a shame they nearly always suck. But not this time! Well no, this isn’t a VS, but it’s a merging of two universes and from where I’m sitting it’s kicking goals. Shame there’s no Boba model, but I’m sure it’s just a matter of time. Gold!
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Whadda you mean no Boba model...?? I think you need to look again and rotate the platform to the Boba-Slave1 model...
ReplyDeleteHey Max,
ReplyDeleteI think the designers are geniuses. They even managed to explain what happened to Optimus Prime's trailer when he transformed; something the cartoons just *(coughed)* over.
Do you know what happened to your collection? Years back my sister went on a big clean-up and arbitrarily decided to stick all mine in a cardboard box under the house. She could never remember exactly where she'd put them, and I could never find them when I looked. It's a big area under the old house. I think I'll have to wait until my parents move or... whatever, and we have to clean the whole space out box by box. I hope I can find them because I'd love to see 'em again. Skywarp
was always my favourite.
I stopped watching after the movie, so I don’t know much about recent generations. I can imagine that they wouldn’t be as good though. How could they be? :-)
I think you need to look again and rotate the platform to the Boba-Slave1 model...
ReplyDeleteWoah! How quick was that! I told you it wouldn't take 'em long! :-)
Does Vaders Tie-Shield deflect Saber strikes?
ReplyDelete-what youve missed in the-
-continuing adventures of the Transfomers-
The Movie - Orson Welles eats whole planets, YES!
Beast wars - Great
Beast machines - Dire
Armada - they had a hispanic characer to be P.C (Bah!)
Energon - Watched two eps (double Bah!)
Galaxy force - sounds lame
Live-action movie - with any luck (and a miracle) Michael Bay can maby do an OK job, Perhaps.
Well I just got back from a friends place where his 5yo son had the Darth Maul transformer. I am embarrased that I couldn't work out how to transform it and Taj had to show me how... But I smiled when he refused to eat his lunch, big time, until his mum said 'Eat the ham or I will put the transformer in the naughty box'... He ate the ham.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed the movie, except for the 80s rock soundtrack which was awful. "YOU'VE GOT THE TOUCH..." (shudder). I loved it how, for the first time, Transformers actually died! I can still remember the chill I felt, watching their eyes flicker and die after being shot by Megatron. Even as a young kid, I was always annoyed that none of them died in the TV show. It took the danger and tension from the show. You didn't worry about any of them going into battle because none of them ever got injured. Maybe I shouldn't want death in a kids' cartoon, but I was the target market, and that's how I felt.
ReplyDeleteThe flipside to finally getting what you wanted though was that all my favourites got killed off. :-)
The other bad thing about the movie, (in addition to the rock soundtrack), was that I taped it off TV, so it had ads. Kylie Minogue had some album out around that time and she popped up in nearly every break. Even on fast forward, she's managed to work her way in as a permanent association with the film. Bummer.
ReplyDeleteSo Will, it sounds like Beast Wars is the only post-gen1 series worth worrying about? Was it different in feel/tone?
ReplyDeleteLive-action movie - with any luck (and a miracle) Michael Bay can maby do an OK job, Perhaps.
I'm less worried about Michael Bay than I am about one of the screenwriters who wrote the dire and offensive Catwoman. For which I see he won a 2005 Razzie Award!
Beast Wars is a divisive topic, in that it was the first TF series since First-Gen, and it was made in First-Gen CGI. So, most people hate it simply because they are now too old (ala Narnia), and cant appreciate quality children’s entertainment, and because the CGI is watchable at best.
ReplyDeleteIt follows the Autobots arrival on prehistoric Earth (time travel) and the perusing Deceptacon forces. When they arrive, their Form-finder-thingy chooses an animal to become their Beast mode, so instead of cars and construction equipment, they are gorillas (Prime) and Veloceraptors (Starscream).
The series had Character development, one love affaire, intrigue, and even a heartbreaking final redemption. And Bumblbee was a real bumblebee, for much needed comic relief. It also featured NO sympathetic human characters to relate to. It introduced the concept of a “spark”, The transformers equivalent of a soul.
It was more serious and mature in tone, A quite popular direction for 90s cartoons (Spawn, Spiderman, X-men).
Maybe I give it too much credit, but I loved it.
Transformers always annoyed me, for several reasons:
ReplyDeleteThere were always serious issues of scale involved. Toys with widely different sizes represented on-screen characters with the same height; and vice versa. (I note that the latest line doesn't really improve on this - Darth Vader transforms into his Tie Fighter. Uh-huh. So is that a very big Vader or a very small fighter?)
Just when an episode got interesting, Marty Monster and Darryl Cotton interrupted.
Years later, when I decided to give the show another go, the transitions had all been "improved" to a headache-inducing CGI bumper; and not just between scenes either - from memory, it was deployed every time the picture switched to another "camera".
All of which is by way of explaining why it's taken me so long to weigh in on this thread, and why - when I did - it was with something so pissweak. But here it is:
Batman vs Superman isn't a merging of two universes. They're both DC Comics characters. (Having said that, you've got to love Batman kicking the crap out of Supes in "The Dark Knight Returns.")
On a completely unrelated note:
I must say, as I get older, I tend to prefer the more subtle crossovers. My favourite was from a short-lived series called "The Visitor", where a crack team of FBI agents on the trail of our hero (a returned alien abductee who travelled around the country doing Richard Kimball-esque things in a Sam Beckett-y way) are warned that if their search doesn't produce results soon, the case will be handed over "to those two weirdos in the basement".
Batman kicking Superman's ass...?? I DONT THINK SO!
ReplyDeleteThere were always serious issues of scale involved.
ReplyDeleteGiven your years of watching Dr Who, I would have thought your ability to suspend your disbelief was so finely honed that issues of scale would be as troubling as a Dalek at the foot of a staircase? (Red flag, red flag!) :-)
But you're right, and as someone who does find it difficult to suspend disbelief - as displayed in my dislike of the theatre and musicals, and in my annoying habit of saying “oh bluescreen” out loud each time I see one on-screen – I’m surprised that it didn’t annoy me more than it did! Maybe I was just young and it was a simpler time? I don’t want to think about it too much now or it migh… Megatron as a gun fitting into Starscream’s hand, Soundwave shrinking to the size of a human radio, heaps of Decepticons fitting inside Astrotrain who’s normally the same size as one of them… Argh!!!
Just when an episode got interesting, Marty Monster and Darryl Cotton interrupted.
Ha, ha! You’re so right.
…the transitions had all been "improved" to a headache-inducing CGI bumper;
Oh man, even as I read your sentence I started twitching. I bought the first Gen 2 VHS tape when it was released, and I was horrified. The blurb on the back says: The classic Transformers legends told as never before, with the advantage of cutting edge computer technology to blow your mind. Watch computerised transitions and graphic enhancements appear and disappear as your view your favourite Transformers adventures. I don’t even know where to start with that. It was arguably the most gimmicky, annoying and pointless addition to anything ever!
…and why – when I did - it was with something so pissweak.
Yes; yes it was. :-) Alright, would you be happy with ‘crossover’? And yes, Batman stickin’ it to Superduperman was gold.
Batman kicking Superman's ass...?? I DONT THINK SO!
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean, CK? Are you disputing that it happened?
Now that I'm in my early Thirties I still find myself on my skateboard with thoughts of Transformers following close behind....
ReplyDeleteA touching tale, Max, and one that heightens the sense of loss for my own missing collection. Cling tightly to your skateboard. What became of your first deck? Still have it? Taped back together after the inevitable focus and stuck up on a wall like a trophy from a golden time long gone? Sigh. I think I can be a bit too nostalgic at times.
Batman kicking Superman's ass...?? I DONT THINK SO!
ReplyDeleteIn the seventy-odd years since the two characters were created, DC has crossed them over several times. Batman wins. Every time.
There were always serious issues of scale involved.
ReplyDeleteGiven your years of watching Dr Who, I would have thought your ability to suspend your disbelief was so finely honed that issues of scale would be as troubling as a Dalek at the foot of a staircase? (Red flag, red flag!) :-)
Does "red flag" mean, 'Please correct my mistakes'? If so...
1964: First appearance of a Dalek.
1965: A Dalek moves from a lower deck of a ship to an upper deck in the same scene (while off-camera).
1972: A Dalek is shown levitating up a ventilation shaft on a transporter disc.
1978: Tom Baker asks a Dalek why, if it is the dominant life form in the Universe, it can't pursue him up a rope ladder. The Dalek's witty response is to shoot at him and miss. (This does imply that Daleks can't levitate, contradicting the earlier stories, but is allowed because 1) It's funny; and 2) Douglas Adams wrote it.)
1985: Davros' chair is shown levitating, complete with special effect.
1987: Several Daleks are shown climbing stairs, including at the end of episode 1 when the Doctor tests the theory that you can escape Daleks by climbing stairs. Answer: "No". (Having Ace at the top of the staircase with an anti-tank rocket helps, though.)
2005: An entire episode is constructed around the premise of having a group of characters trapped in a subterranean bunker, with a Dalek 80 levels below and slowly climbing the stairs towards them.
Of course, sometimes Batman and Superman cross over and don't fight, of course. They team up to defeat the Joker or something.
ReplyDeleteBut when they do have a showdown, for whatever contrived reason, Kal-El gets his Kal-Ock Kal-Eaned.
Explain how? Superman is invunrible and Batman dont have superpowers... does Batman have Kryptonit in his anotomically correct suit nipples or something to make Superman weak, or something?
ReplyDeleteAs a sign of deep respect and trust, Superman gave Batman a piece of kryptonite, to use if Suppes ever whent Rogue.
ReplyDeleteCant recall the Comic issue.
In The Dark Knight Returns, which is a non-canonical "Elseworld" story, Batman wears an armoured combat suit which was partly made of Kryptonite. (Oddly enough, not the nipples: in fact, I don't think the suit had nipples, probably because Frank Miller is not Joel Schumacher.)
ReplyDeleteThere was also a Soviet nuclear attack on America, causing a nuclear winter which cut Superman off from the rays of the Sun; but Batman hadn't planned for that, of course.
I'm not familiar with any of the other crossovers, but I imagine that they are all fairly similar in the sense that they all involve Batman having a plan, and that plan somehow involves Kryptonite.
I'm not familiar with the comic where Superman solemnly hands over the Kryptonite. But from what I know about Batman, I imagine him accepting it, and then putting it somewhere in the Batcave where it will act as a decoy to prevent Superman from searching for the vast, hidden, lead-lined vault containing rows upon rows of Kryptonite that Wayne Enterprises has been acquiring quietly over the years. Just in case.
Does "red flag" mean, 'Please correct my mistakes'? If so...
ReplyDeleteOh double-J, we’ve spoken about Daleks and stairs on a number of occasions, so no, it didn’t mean “correct my mistakes”. Perhaps I should have said, ‘Red rag’, as in ‘Red rag to a bull’, as in, ‘Here’s a deliberately provocative statement that’s sure to provoke a response. Please note: I’m making your beloved fishing-rod/reeling-in gesture again. :-)
Batman arranged to have a kryptonite-tipped arrow fired at Supes. He made the kryptonite himself. ”It wasn’t easy to synthesize, Clark… Took years… and it cost a fortune… Luckily I had both.”
ReplyDeleteWhat a guy!
(Oddly enough, not the nipples: in fact, I don't think the suit had nipples, probably because Frank Miller is not Joel Schumacher.)
ReplyDeleteHa, ha. Praise the Good Lord for that. :-)
Given your years of watching Dr Who, I would have thought your ability to suspend your disbelief was so finely honed that issues of scale would be as troubling as a Dalek at the foot of a staircase?
ReplyDeleteI don't know about anyone else, but for me discrepancies in scale jar in a way that very few other things do.
A scene where an object is a particular size, followed immediately by a scene where the same object is a completely different size without explanation, shatters the suspension of disbelief.
There are episodes of Doctor Who with scaling problems of this nature between the models and the props, and I do find it much harder to suspend disbelief for those. Even as a child, I knew these were "wrong", somehow.
Transformers is animated, so doesn't even have the excuse Doctor Who has of having to match props and models on a limited budget.
The sense that the makers Just Don't Care about the scales - because at the end of the day, they're just producing a toy commercial - shines through lound and clear.
'which cut Superman off from the rays of the Sun'
ReplyDeleteAre we forgeting the countless inter-galactic adventures Supes goes on? what clever excuse do the writers come up with as to how he mantains his bullet-speeding even outside of the suns reach? Other planetary Suns? Portable-Sun-pack?
I don't know much about Superman but I understand his power comes from a yellow sun. Although the writers seem to shift the line when the plot requires.
ReplyDeleteI like this summary of Superduper's powers from Wikipedia:
Writers slowly increased his powers over time until, by the Silver Age, he was effectively omnipotent. However, it became increasingly difficult to write stories in which such a hero was believably challenged, given that by then he could demolish entire planets, fly fast enough to travel through time, required neither food nor sleep, was superhumanly intelligent and could see and hear from one side of the universe to the other.
Silver Age...
ReplyDeleteWhat are the ages about?
(This should get the comments up from the lowly 29 they are now... he he...)
Obviously, if Bruce Wayne's parents were killed in the 1920s, Batman would be at least 80 years old now, which would limit the options for storytelling.
ReplyDeleteSo every now and then, DC Comics move the origin stories of their heroes forward in time. The original Batman, for example, was born in the 1910s, orphaned in the 1920s, and appeared in comics from the 1930s-1940s.
At some point in the 1950s or 1960s, the writers quietly moved the death of Bruce Wayne's parents forward to the 1940s.
The writers probably hoped no-one would notice this change, but anyone who knows fans should have known better.
Since then, the Batman whose parents dies in the 1920s has been called the "Golden Age" Batman, and the newer one the "Silver Age" Batman.
In the 1980s, the DC Universe was explictly rebooted and a new origin for Batman - "Batman: Year One" by Frank Miller - was written, giving us the "Modern Age" Batman.
I think there may even have been another reboot since then.
Of course, each "Age" is effectively its own parallel Universe, with its own complement of DC heroes. So there are, of course, Golden Age, Silver Age, and Modern Age versions of Superman as well.
Naturally, the Ages do cross over sometimes - the first rule of comics is that everything crosses over with everything else, sooner or later.
Which 'age' Batman is better?
ReplyDeleteDo you mean who'd win in a 'Batman Vs Batman' ultimate head-to-head, nose-to-nose, knockdown/dragout throwdown/showdown, once in a lifetime, mano a mano deathmatch, battle-royale, slapdown slug-match extravaganza?
ReplyDeleteThe "Dark Knight Returns" Batman has that armoured combat suit he used to kick the crap out of Superman, so he could beat all the others hands down.
ReplyDeleteAlthough, Golden Age Batman would have his own advantage, being the only Batman who carries a gun. If he's quick enough on the draw and accurate enough (and being Batman, he's most likely both) then he's got a fighting chance even though he's older than all of the others and/or has technology 20 years behind theirs.
ReplyDelete(The truly sad thing about me knowing all this is that I don't read comics.)
The "Dark Knight Returns" Batman has that armoured combat suit he used to kick the crap out of Superman, so he could beat all the others hands down.
ReplyDeleteWell, maybe, but that Batman had the distinct advantage of fighting an opponent who was suffering the effects of a nuclear explosion and a crippling dose of kryptonite. The suit played a role, but I wouldn't say it was a decisive one.
More interestingly, who would be eliminated first? Adam West Batman or paraplegic Bruce Wayne from Batman Beyond?
ReplyDeleteAdam West would air-swing (because that's all he knows how to do) and paraplegic Batman would headbutt the bejuggery out of him (because he's just that hard). :-)
ReplyDeleteHeh. Shows what I know - Bruce Wayne isn't a paraplegic in "Batman Beyond", he just has a heart condition.
ReplyDeleteI had the storyline confused with that of the Modern Age Batman's paraplegia in "Knightfall".
They could still both beat the stuffing (and there certainly was a lot of it hanging over that utility belt) out of Adam West.
Batman Beyond Bruce Wayne could still take on the ressurected Joker (he lost in the end). Even if hes about seventy with a Heart condition, and hes got a big Dog.
ReplyDeleteThis batman would snap Wests kneck, without the slightest care, given how much more grizzled and broding he is.
Apostropher? Do you have an endless list of "kill" euphamaisms?
ReplyDeleteUm, no. Should I have?
ReplyDeleteI can't believe we've spent even this paltry time discussing which Batman could beat which Batman when there's the infinitely more important question of would a Star Destroyer take out the Starship Enterprise?
(And I'm joking, by the way).
If we're talking Scott Bakula's Enterprise, then the Star Destroyer would clobber it if it could bring its guns to bear for long enough. The Enterprise(tm) could go to warp speed but - assuming the Imps could locate it when it came out of warp - they could hyperjump to the new location and recommence the pummelling. Repeat as necessary.
ReplyDeleteFrom Kirk onwards, however, the transporters work well enough to beam a nuke directly to the SD's bridge. Game over.
(Yeah I know, joking, but who could resist getting comment #42?)
(Yeah I know, joking, but who could resist getting comment #42?)
ReplyDelete"Comment 42," he noticed, as he prepared to post his already written reply... :-)
Untrue on both counts.
ReplyDeleteSince the last time I indulged in an Enterprise vs SD discussion, Star Trek: Enterprise has come along; so I actually had to think about how that Enterprise would fare.
And, I genuinely wanted to get Comment #42, which is why I bit. So there.